take these 1969 Coronets for examples. They aren't running, painted, or trouble free. The owner of this white vinyl top one wants to sell, won't say what he must get for it, is hoping an idiot comes along with a fortune, and has finally given up on "I'm going to fix it up some day" as he now realizes, it's 20 to 30 thousand to make it a nice car.
Hell, if you don't know what the prices are for every stupid little thing, just take my word for it, they cost 3 times what they did in the 80s.
Now, the Cragar SS rims aren't as good as they used to be, and only last a year or two before they start to rust. The paint now needs 3 base coats, with 4 or 5 clear, to be "good enough" to be happy with, and there are damn few parts you can get from any junk yard, as no one has thrown these away in a long while. That was the 90s, when these were 20 some years old and worn all out, and not worth money.
Since then, only dreamers have held on, but now find that there aren't many buyers who will fork over auction company money for the project car that doesn't run, and the number of buyers is shrinking every day as us grey beards that ARE interested, are not getting any younger, and they made thousands of these, and though not many remain? No one cares.
It's competing for a buyer with every 1966-71 Mopar that is in better shape, that runs, and if the buyer is just looking for a project of any manufacturer, then it's competing with every Ford and Chevy, Pontiac and Oldsmobile, Mercury and Plymouth.
The entire matter of what it's worth depends on the buyer, and if they care at all. They are likely to care less and less if they learn it doesn't run, has no title, has back taxes to pay, etc. Every problem just makes it less attractive.
And that's just the people local, and few of them even exist that want a project that they can drive over and pick up. Anyone that lives so far away that they have to make a trip, and have it transported home? Costs them a thou or more.
I don't think many people are out shopping for a project to spend 20-40 thousand on, not unless they just want a project to tinker with in retirement, and that's very few people. Most buyers are nothing but flippers, who want a trouble free car they can dust off and take to the auction for a quick profit.
Cars in this much need of parts and machine and body shop work? Are they closer to the junkyard than a new garage? These aren't investment grade, have no unique low production number qualities, like top of the line trim level rare names (GTX, Super Bee, Super Bird, Daytona, Charger 500, Hemi anything) so, they are never going to be investments.
They aren't even the more desireable engine and trans combos, as these are 904 autos, with 318s, and junk 7 inch rears. No disc brakes, no power anything, no air bags, air conditioning, rare paint codes (the Panther Pink/ Moulin Rouge 1969 and 70 cars are in demand simply for the color code investment)
So, I think that unless some dad or grand dad at church or the VFW, wants it for a project with their kid or grand kid, or maybe a Boy Scout leader or shop class teacher who can use it to teach basic mechanics is in the area, it's not going to sell for much
If it's not a rustfree car with little need of myriad parts and interior panels that are ridiculously expensive, it's got hope.
But, the question was, are plain Jane cars like these on the edge of junkyard pieces or donors, because to make them run and look good is a 25 thousand dollar investment that few people can afford anymore. The middle class who can afford that, and wants to blow a college tuition on a car, is disappearing, and few others will buy a plain jane old car anymore. If it's not an investment grade car they can flip? They move on.
What do you think, let me know in the comments please, I'm looking to get your thoughts on this situation (not these exact cars, but ones like them)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2344412042248126&set=p.2344412042248126&type=3&theater
I would say you are correct. Paperboy money used to be able to buy these cars. Tough to find a paperboy today. Point is, the fun is overpriced. A lot overpriced.
ReplyDeleteI think you are on the right track. At one time, restoring cars could make sense; lots of cheap parts; differences between "newer" cars and older cars weren't what they are today; and many people could DIY. Today there are less parts, they cost more, and newer cars are a world of difference from what was being produced 40 or more years ago. Not to mention that you can't do too much any more with just a set of sockets and open-ended wrenches. Added to that is Detroit really got lost in 70's and 80's producing really mediocre vehicles with little panache, marginal quality and even less zip. Stir in the lack luster wage growth of a large group of potential DIYers that have little disposable income and you've got a saturated and very weak market.
ReplyDeleteThere must be kids out there clever enough to get a car like that running, but who can live with a cheap paint job (50+ rattlecans). Unless it's a real beater.
ReplyDeleteI had 2 primer gray cars, my 71 Challenger, and my 72 Demon. Sure, a fresh coat was 2 cans of spray paint. But no amount of clever gets you a rebuilt power train for less than the cost of gaskets ( a couple hundred dollars ) and some actual expert shop set up on rebuilt trans, engine, and rear axle. I won't compromise on those, and try rebuliding those myself. I've already screwed up one axle, and one trans. That cost a couple thou to get someone else to fix them after I broke them.
DeleteSo, rebuilding the power train, just in bearings, and gaskets? a couple thou.
Replacing the worn out suspension and steering parts, all the ball joints, idler arm, pitman arm, upper and lower control arms, torsion bar bushings, 500 to 700 dollars.
replacing all hoses for cooling, brakes, fuel and vacuum, as those have all dried out because they are 50 years old, 300 bucks.
You better replace the steering gears, they're probably worn out.
You might not have to replace the radiator, but you ought to.
you should pay for a decent paint job, and that is 5 thou, minimum.
new tires and rims, and brakes, 1200
and if you don't replace the seats, you will replace the carpet, 500
you might not have to replace the headliner, but you probably will.
YOu might get lucky and the heater core won't need to be replaced.
you might get lucky and the windshield wiper motor still works.
You might get lucky and the fuel tank doesn't leak, and the tank level indicator float still works
You will need to install headers and exhaust pipes and mufflers, 1000
But, add that all up. No amount of clever is going to get you free parts.
So just to make one of these above examples work, with the examples of costs I've just used, is about 12 thou.
But if you want to make it nice, it's more like 20.
And that is if you don't have to pay for the car.
SO, when people ask me what a car is worth? I never say more than 10 thou for anything that isn't rare. All the old Mustangs that aren't Hi Po, Shelby, Boss, Mach 1. All the Camaros that aren't 396, SS/RS, Z28, all the mopars that are 383 or smaller. This seems legit to you? Over 10 thou for a car that is still relatively common (the internet is full of used cars for sale) but needs 15 to 20 thou to make nice and reliable, is asking too much.